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Kaiser Basileus's avatar

The idea of civilization is that it's peaceful and fair but in practice it only means there are systems in place that pay lip service to peaceful and fair. What actual civilization will eventually be is reciprocity - no one left behind, as already actually attained by ancient civilizations, and what we have now will be called something derogatory, as deserved.

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meika loofs samorzewski's avatar

Since my last comment on the bad-application of the term 'nomadism' for hunter-gatherers (especially in Australia) where I mention scale as a factor in the misapplication...

https://geopolicraticus.substack.com/p/the-upper-bound-of-hunter-gatherers/comment/114615870

—I've been thinking more about __scale__ as a informing condition (as opposed to a definitional stance) on these bounds.

"We can distinguish between tightly-coupled civilizational ecosystems and loosely-coupled civilizational ecosystems."

To which, I suggest, we can add "widely-coupled" as an orthogonal axis of description.

Consider a continent, like Australia, as a un-dense 'city'.

In which a period of >35, 000 years forms a population equivalent to a major city. Even if we think of it as thinly-connecting cultural processing power (crudely think of it). Millennia of stability (even if here is a continual drying out and increasing desert like conditions) process and survive it did.

Where the 'streets' cross the continent, with ceremony scattered but binding, languages are spoken by outsiders, and people share an address on the same highway in ceremony and responsibilities, but orthogonal to local roads, and their more profane home ranges and feuds. The highways of cross-insurance exchanges and high church "songlines" crisscross the growing deserts, but even so, on this large continental scale, information flows, song=country is 'traded' more than goods that cities hoard and measure and trade. Cities facilitate material complexification (ecology into economy), and it might be best to see this city-defined civilisation as a gastrulation of a more widely spaced 'civilization' (that we have no term for except the 'world') of which cities are an outcome, a "meta-civiilsing process" which cities materialize… allowing economy to arise out of the social learning created social capital of Homo species whose first population could only expand by living in many more landscapes and niches than even Africa provided.

The country is an outgrowth of the city, and the city is a consolidating intensity of the shared wilderness experience of Homo sapiens.

Originarily we shared meals as we traded words, but traded song before we exchanged goods. Economics begins in not so much in ecology but in boasting about once place in the world of one's means. And getting served.

We have trouble seeing the city outside of the city. That civilization predates the city, or at least the notion of the barbarian does. Those outside the discourse of our success, i.e. the "wildly-uncoupled" pole of the suggested orthogonal dimension in contrast to "widely coupled"

See also https://songlines.nma.gov.au/tjanpi

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